The Whole Story.."Managed Accounts…Are They Really Safe??? "

My blog article "Managed Accounts…Are They Really Safe???" really sparked a lot of drama. I am posting the emails so everyone can see the whole picture. I was hoping to drop this, but Rod is telling lies about me in another forum. Here are some of his comments followed by my rebuttals:

"For those that have seen the "Snuffy" posts I assure you that you are seeing what he wishes to see."

I am not sure what that means. What would I wish people to see? I suspect he knows he has made himself look bad, so now he is trying to use deflection by attempting to make me look bad. I assure that I have been open and honest about everything.

"I do not put people on the top of the reply list that are obviously not investors and are more interested in using parts of information to pick things apart."

Another false accusation that is baseless. I was very interested in the managed Forex offering. I was following my standard DD. You will see that in the emails. It is obvious to me that Rod is telling lies to fit his story.

"Why would I consider sending this person priveledged information when it is obvious that they are going to post this information all over the web."

I had no intent to post on the web. For him to say that is baseless. Has anyone received this "information" at the time he wrote this? I challenge him to prove how it was obvious I was going post it on the web. He can't because there is nothing to indicate this.

"So if someone were to read the above posts they would assume that my e mail was hacked, the site was taken down due to security vulnerablilities, or that Snuffy is a reasonable man that is just trying to do his DD. All of which is false."

Once again I was doing DD as I was very interested. My article below tells the story as well as the emails I have posted in this blog post.

Here are the emails I have previously mentioned I was considering posting.

Here is the email I sent on February 14, 2006. I have edited the trader's name because I now know Rod wishes his name not be shown in public. If you go to the Udachu Fund forum you will see this corresponds with my posts in which I said I sent an email. Assuming my posts have not been deleted. If they have been deleted or changed I have taken the precaution of saving them.

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Hi Rod,

I saw your post regarding the managed Forex account offering traded by *name edited*. I asked some questions in the forum, but I was told it would be best to contact you via email. I am interested in this offering, but I need to do some proper DD first.

Would you have information about past performance, trading strategy, trading proof, leverage used, drawdown, etc.?



Regards,

Snuffy

http://www.snuffyinvest.com

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Then there is an email that proves Rod is lying in the comments I posted above. On February 22, 2006 I received an email with the details of the conference call. Now why would I be sent this email if he thought I was not really interested in investing? It doesn't add up.

The next email is from Rod on February 24, 2006. It is a reply to my original inquiry asking for more information about the managed Forex offering. Yet it did not address my questions. I have no idea why he took the time to send this.

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Hi,

Saw your posts. Very interesting. You also claim to be a member of UdachuFund but there is no record of that. You were a little harsh with your posts. It is really ashame because almost all of your post was uninformed. For the record I was not referring to you when I made a post about the speculation. It was someone else that had posted what the monthly returns would most likely be. They had been deleted prior to reading that I guess. Also for the record I do not have access to the administration of the UdachuFund Forum. I never deleted anything any one said. I couldn't if I wanted to. Your claims of leverage are way off. I have been trading for over 25 years. I have taught Technical Analysis all over the world and have writted 7 published training manuals and trading strategy books. I know what I am doing. I am not one of these little HYIP punks that reads an article on Forex and decides to be an IB. There are some very big investors in UdachuFund. They often come up with requests that I try to fulfill. One of them has been for us  to offer managed Forex accounts. This is why I have done what I have done. It took me a very long time to find the best trader for the job. The requirements for trading for Udachu are some of the strictest in the industry. We require at least 5 years proof of trading institutional accounts in excess of 1 billion dollars, as well as a proven multi arena strategy portfolio with various money management regs.  That is just the start. Leverage is a moot point. it does not matter if you use 1 to 1 or 1000 to 1 if you only are using 5% risk. Telling someone to run if they use 100% is nothing less than a very naive and ignorant viewpoint. No offense meant. But before you claim to be a member of Udachu and start calling me a liar I suggest you do a little DD and see just what type of people you are talking about. You may be surpised. We are not all 20 year old kids in India working out of an Internet Cafe.

Rod

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Suffice it to say, I found his email very confusing. I composed a reply, but decided not to send it yet. When I woke up the next morning and checked my email I found a blog comment notification with his comment inside. It was the first comment he left on the blog article "Managed Accounts…Are They Really Safe???". You can see for yourself he was taunting me about not replying. Once again, I found his actions confusing. I sent the email I had written and then replied to his blog comment which you can see in the comment section of that article.

Now that you have a better timeline for what happened, here is my email reply to him sent February 26, 2006:

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Rod,

At first I really didn't know what to say about your reply. It did not address my original email inquiry, but rather contains claims I was saying certain things or acted a certain way when that is clearly not the case.

I don't know how you are coming to these conclusions. Perhaps you have mistaken me for someone else. Would you kindly show me where I claimed to be a member of Udachu Fund? A link will suffice. I have also never said you have administrative access to the Udachu Fund forum.

How do you have access to the Udachu Fund to check if I am a member? I understand Tom now manages Udachu Fund.

My intent in going to the Udachu Fund forum was to seek DD as I was interested in joining. So why would I say I was a member? Once again, please prove I have said I am or ever was a member.

"But before you claim to be a member of Udachu and start calling me a liar I suggest you do a little DD and see just what type of people you are talking about. You may be surpised."

Actually I was surprised, but not in the way I hoped for. I always hope to find a good investment so I can diversify further and share that knowledge with fellow investors.

I have done my DD and this is what I have found so far. Based on what I have found I do not feel I need to proceed any further. Keep in mind while reading this, part of DD is looking at the people involved in running it. When looking at any business I feel management is most important. Even a company with the best product will not fare well if it is not managed well. I know you claim to no longer be managing Udachu Fund, but based on what I have seen I believe that is not the reality of the situation. At a minimum you still have a very strong influence in the decisions of Udachu Fund. The fact you admit to checking if I am a member is an indicator of this.

During my DD for Udachu Fund I was told by other members there are no proof of earnings. I was truly hoping to find proof because the returns for Udachu Fund are quite nice and I would have considered joining had there been any.

I also found you had lied in the past. Such as your claim of a "close working relationship" with Steve Chesnowitz of Chart Candle. See question #5:
http://hyip-navigator.com/interview.php?num=31

The truth is at that time you had only called Steve a total of one time. Another lie would be your email to me saying I claimed to be a member of Udachu Fund. I consider integrity the most important quality of management.

In addition, you seem to get agitated easily and are bad tempered based on what people have told me and what I have read.

I have also noticed you are what is known as a "big talker". Basically boastful and known to exaggerate. Someone behaving professionally with integrity will not do this. Your claim about Chart Candle is one indicator of this. Your email to me is also an example of boasting:


"I have taught Technical Analysis all over the world and have writted 7 published training manuals and trading strategy books."

Would you mind sharing the names of the 7 manuals and books you have "writted"?

I have also found in the past members were told they would receive an update every month and allowed to vote for programs. Those who voted "no" were free to leave Udachu Fund. Doesn't that contradict the purpose of voting??

Also I have found sometimes you do not behave in a professional manner. A prime example is your email to me in reply to my inquiry about the managed Forex service you are currently offering. Your response was unprofessional and it did not address what I was asking. I still have no additional facts about the trader and his service. Not even a simple performance history. Normally someone wanting to attract investors with a legitimate investment will gladly field questions to satisfy the doubts of an investor.

As I mentioned, my point was to take a look at the people who run Udachu Fund as part of my DD. That appears to be unstable. Would you trust your hard earned capital in the hands of someone exhibiting all the qualities I have listed?

In the email to me you have said what you require as proof from a trader. Yet absolutely none of this "proof" has been shared in your reply to my inquiry asking for proof. Furthermore, your posts on the Udachu Fund forum were quite defensive regarding this matter. If I was wrong, in your opinion, then you could have easily corrected me and backed it up with an example and/or proof. I think having a discussion of that type on the forum would have educated fellow forum members, thus making them more informed.

"It is really ashame because almost all of your post was uninformed."

It is a shame because I was trying to become informed about the managed accounts. Yet my attempts to do so have been blocked by you. This is a contradiction from you, much like the past Udachu Fund voting I mentioned. Another contradict is you encourage investors due their due diligence, yet when they do so regarding your investment offerings it is met with opposition.

Your comments about leverage do not make sense as well. Do you understand the difference between account leverage vs. trading leverage? I made it clear I was discussing trade leverage in 3 different posts in the managed account thread:


http://www.udachufundforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1377&postcount=40

http://www.udachufundforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1377&postcount=45

http://www.udachufundforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1377&postcount=49

Your comments about leverage alone have said enough regarding your ability to scrutinize a Forex trader. I understand what you are saying about risking a percentage of an account. However, to say I am naive and ignorant to say leverage matters when I was clearly discussing trading leverage shows who is ignorant, and it is not me. That combined with the lack of proof and defensive behavior regarding your managed Forex offering is a red flag to not invest. I wish you luck with your trader, *name edited*, but at this time I cannot see myself investing in Udachu Fund or your managed Forex offering.

Regards,

Snuffy

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Once I sent that email his attitude started to change when he commented on my blog. Although he still felt the need to insult. Everyone can read the blog comments themselves to see the rest of the events that took place in the order it happened. After all the blog comments, he sent me another email. In this one he at least seems more reasonable. Had he been this reasonable in the first place I think this whole mess could have been avoided.

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Hi,

I apologise if I came across as rude and out of line. Please try to understand that I am a very busy person. I do not have the time to address all of the nonsense that comes up from misinformation. That interview that you are talking about was not mine. I have never mentioned a traders name EVER on any forum. Steve has a program that is one of the lowest paying out there. I have never invested with him. As far as you saying you were a member of UdachuFund, one of your posts stated that you were. I am not the admin of UdachuFund. But I own Vielka Cielo Corp which owns UdachuFund so of course I can request information when ever I need to. There were many posts on that thread that was very dangerous information because if it being wrong. There was a lot of speculation going on. I have not advertised the managed accounts. These were made available to UdachFund members. I have a lot of long time investors that know me well and trust me completely. Many of them are traders themselves that I have taught, use my manuals and strategies and know how I conduct my DD. This is why it is inappropriate for someone who is not a member to come on the members forums and start telling them they should run if a trader is doing something. If I were advertising these accounts it would be a different story. Posting a traders name is just wrong. And when I saw that *name edited* had his name posted on my forum I was furious. It is a private forum for UdachuFund members. These members know to stay within the guidelines. When an outsider comes on there and says anything negative then I will talk to the moderator and ask him to remove it. Not for censorship but to keep my investors comfortable in knowing that their funds are in good hands. When I saw that you copied the private forum and posted it somewhere else of course I was angry. I have every right to be angry. As far as insulting my investors I have to disagree. There is a huge difference between what is considered an HYIP and a diversified fund. You painted a picture of me being just an IB trying to make a few bucks. You are way off base. I brought the managed accounts to the members because they asked for them. I own 13 companies and have very little time to devote to these projects. But I try to accommodate the requests of members. The last thing I need is someone trying to pick it apart when they are not even one of the members and then I am forced to justify myself. The paltry amount of money I would make as an IB is of no interest to me at all. I have 500k invested with this trader of my own money so of course I have done my DD. Most of the members rely on my knowledge and judgement and follow my lead. So your warnings were out of place. That is not to say that I do not provide the DD when any one wants it. So if you do not mind please stay off from the Udachu Forum and I will stay away from your Blog. It is very apparent that you have no desire to invest with us which is fine so there is no reason to voice your opinions there. Again if I offended you I am sorry. My only defense is that I am tired of dealing with mis quotes and accusations that are based on things that are not fully accurate.

Regards,

Rod

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Now I have a better idea where Rod is coming from. If he had said any of this was not to be discussed in a public setting then I never would have asked any questions on the Udachu Fund forum. I do disagree with him when he says "And when I saw that *name edited* had his name posted on my forum I was furious.". The traders name is on the forum because he posted links to the applications which contain the trader's name. In my opinion, if this was to be kept a secret then those forms should have only been distributed in private and he should have stated the need for confidentiality when he first posted the thread. He says it is a private forum, but anyone can access it without logging in.

I noticed Rod is still saying this, "As far as you saying you were a member of UdachuFund, one of your posts stated that you were."

I have asked him multiple times to prove this. He has yet to do so. I hardly have any posts on that forum, so it would be easy for him to check. As I mentioned, I saved my posts in case someone tries to change it. People reading this may be thinking....why does Snuffy care? The point is I highly value integrity and by Rod saying this lie he is questioning mine. This is wrong and I think he needs to either produce proof of his claim or admit he is wrong. I suspect he may have misread something.

Anyway I hope this closes this matter.

On another note, I have seen some people that have read the article saying....how can a managed Forex account service scam someone. If you feel this may I strongly urge you read the article again. Read it many times if you are considering this as an investment vehicle. It is more common then you think. I would hate for anyone to learn this lesson the hard way. It can be a very expensive lesson to learn. ;)

Managed Accounts…Are They Really Safe???

For awhile I have been noticing an increasing trend of HYIP investors showing interest in managed accounts, typically Forex.

The term “MA” has even been coined as a result of the growing interest in this. If someone said “MA” in a Forex forum they would be referring to a “moving average”.

As a result of this trend, I have seen “MA” services providers and middlemen appearing more frequently in HYIP forums. The market for this is growing and they are stepping up to take advantage of it. This may not necessarily be a good thing. It will likely cause an increase of them and many will form one just to take advantage of people that have yet to be educated about “MA”.

I have seen people ranging from a guy that had a successful backtest on a MT4 EA and thinks he has gold, to an amateur turned IB (middleman) that found a trader and doesn't know what a good trader is and just cares about his IB fees/commission, and then there are managed account services looking for clients.

Here is an example. I recently joined the Udachu Fund forum because I was interested in joining the fund, but that is another story. In the forum I noticed a thread for a managed account service offering.

Here is the title and link to that thread:

Managed Forex Account (100% your control) But high profits!

That is certainly enough to make someone curious. Who wouldn't be interested in high profits? When I clicked the link I was surprised to find there were only forms to apply for the service. Not even something as basic as performance history was present. In fact, I had heard of the trader before. I previously ran across someone offering the same trader under the same conditions….”20% of new profits based on monthly highwater mark” and “3 pips per round turn”!!!

When I asked for more information from the other person offering the same trader my questions were conveniently ignored. So naturally I wanted to learn more details thinking Rod Spiller of Udachu could fill in the gaps. This is normal to want to know more facts before investing. Wouldn't anyone want to know?

Well you can read the thread yourself to see what happened. By page 3 of the thread you will notice people are already investing without knowing any further details!!! I was asking legitimate questions and at the same time offering a little education so investors would think about it before jumping in. I am by no means an expert, but thought I could share what I know.

In the end, I was accused of speculating and criticizing, which I was clearly not doing. In fact, when I posted to clarify I was doing no such thing….my post was deleted!!

Here is proof:

Link to screenshot before the deletion: The Evidence :)

Link to screenshot after the deletion

As you can see, my post is now missing.

I was very surprised by the defensive nature in the forum, especially from Rod himself. As the person presenting this opportunity he should be fielding questions regarding it. When I come across a lack of willingness to provide details and proof I consider this a red flag. It is only natural for an investor to ask such questions before taking the plunge.

I was told in PM that Rod was doing everyone a favor by offering this. I totally disagree. Rod is the IB (Introducing Broker). Think of an IB as a person getting referral income….and yes an IB does make money from this. He introduces the opportunity and is compensated for it. Go to a Forex broker website and look for “Introducing Broker”. An IB makes money whether the trader makes winning or losing trades. I consider this a conflict of interest. In this position he doesn’t need to have your best interests in mind, he gets paid either way.

In addition, someone on the forum said:

“I have seen this guy is working with a few other groups on the internet as well....”

Rod’s reply to that was:

“Be careful because many of these posts people are seeing are not involved with Chris. In fact he has not even heard of many of them.”

Why would it matter? I have seen others using the same trader and broker. Rod is likely saying this to protect his IB income.

The sad thing is many will jump into a “MA” and do so without trading proof or any type of due diligence. Just like in the example above. They will do it simply because it is a "MA" and think they can't lose because the trader can't run with the money. That is HYIP investor type of thinking. At least with a Ponzi we have a chance to use timing to make something from it.

A managed account is real trading and losses do occur. The trader can easily blow-out your account. Let’s say the trader trades your account down to 30% of what it started at and is no longer able to trade it. Then what happens? Nothing! You were told trading is risky. Not a problem for the trader. The trader just doesn’t get a performance fee. The trader had nothing to lose by trading YOUR money. Not to mention the IB that also had nothing to lose. In fact, the IB is in a winning situation. The IB has no money at risk unless the IB has also invested.

In the end, HYIP investors will need to become more educated in this matter if they want to start utilizing managed accounts. Otherwise they will learn some hard lessons. “MA” could be a scam in another form that HYIP investors may not recognize. New types of scams are always being invented on the internet and “MA” could be one of them. I am not saying all “MA” are. It is up to the investor to educate themselves and decide which ones are scams. Know the pitfalls and what the person offering it has to gain as well as their other possible hidden agendas.

Just because it is a managed account doesn’t make it a golden goose. ;)

AlienTrust / Stormpay Update

At the moment there appears to be conflicting stories between Stormpay and autosurf programs. Stormpay has locked all autosurf accounts they have found claiming they are a Ponzi and not allowed. I find this ironic considering the link below.


Tennessee Securities Division vs. Stormpay


My AlienTrust balance is now zero. I was due my first payment via Stormpay yesterday. Many are suggesting calling your credit card company and requesting a changeback to Stormpay. Keep an eye on the forums to see how this develops and the best course of action to take. Make sure to separate drama from fact when reading the forums. ;)

Moving on to another autosurf.....I joined Surf Frenzy on Jan. 23rd. with a very small e-gold upgrade. This doesn't appear to be getting much attention so this could be one to last long enough to get my principal out. I like that it accepts e-gold...also EMO and FSPay. On Jan. 31st they decided to eliminate Stormpay due to them demanding they be the only processor. This turned out to be a good move. :)